Leisure/Second battery or just an inverter? - Nissan-Navara.net
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Leisure/Second battery or just an inverter?

Hi guys,

I'm considering installing a leisure/second battery in the tub of my NP300. I want to be able to run an inverter for a 3-pin socket and a 12v socket.
I have no idea what I need (besides a battery, cable and aforementioned sockets). I presume I need some kind of kit to charge the battery.

Can someone point me in the right direction, please?

All help gratefully received.

Thanks,

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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 01:57 PM
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You will probably need a DC-DC charger to get the best result.

Do a bit of research on smart alternators and chargers, and have a look on here on here (I don't have one, so cannot say if I recommend any particular one):

https://sterling-power.com/products/...ers-up-to-130a
http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/batter...-chargers.html
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters

The issue is that smart alternators vary their output voltage which messes up the proper charge cycle for a leisure battery.

As for an inverter you may need something waterproof, and if you are using electric motor driven tools, get a "true sine wave" model. For most other mains kit, a cheaper "synthesized mains" will usually work fine. Inverters are fairly easy to find by googling. Use RCD as well.

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Last edited by freemansteve; 11-10-17 at 02:01 PM.
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 06:28 PM
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Just wondered if you have a towbar fitted? as if you have it fully wired up, you could tap into the feed that supplies the leisure battery.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g1smo View Post
Just wondered if you have a towbar fitted? as if you have it fully wired up, you could tap into the feed that supplies the leisure battery.
Maybe, but the feed will still reflect the voltage coming from the battery and smart alternator. This is fine for driving the various lights etc, on a trailer, but not so good if you are trying to charge a secondary battery. Many people find that the 2nd battery either doesn't charge up as much as they expect from driving the truck, or that the battery mysteriously goes end-of-life much sooner than they were expecting - leisure batteries only reach their full life if you can charge them from a device that controls voltages and currents to a certain profile. Even then, there are different types of leisure batteries that require different charging profiles (usually selectable on DC-DC chargers).

I'm only commenting because this is a known big topic in the caravan community, where, for various reasons including smart alternators, their leisure batteries don't quite charge or last like people expect. I am convinced DC-DC chargers are the best solution, as they can provide the right charge even if their input voltage is low, or is variable....

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g1smo View Post
Just wondered if you have a towbar fitted?
No, I don't,

Quote:
Originally Posted by freemansteve View Post
Maybe, but the feed will still reflect the voltage coming from the battery and smart alternator. This is fine for driving the various lights etc, on a trailer, but not so good if you are trying to charge a secondary battery. Many people find that the 2nd battery either doesn't charge up as much as they expect from driving the truck, or that the battery mysteriously goes end-of-life much sooner than they were expecting - leisure batteries only reach their full life if you can charge them from a device that controls voltages and currents to a certain profile. Even then, there are different types of leisure batteries that require different charging profiles (usually selectable on DC-DC chargers).

I'm only commenting because this is a known big topic in the caravan community, where, for various reasons including smart alternators, their leisure batteries don't quite charge or last like people expect. I am convinced DC-DC chargers are the best solution, as they can provide the right charge even if their input voltage is low, or is variable....
So something like this isn't enough then?

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 08:29 PM
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Ok make way stand aside ...
This is my bag..... I know a little about this.



Ok alternator on engine is designed to charge a specific battery and run electrical systems that are necessary. This is why alternators over the last 30 years have grown from 35 amps and 50 amps to 90 amps and up to 200 amps and over.
Modern engine management systems can consume loads of power now days, ( pumps, ecu s, injectors, radios, air bag systems ad blue pumps ect.

Battery technology has changed and so have invertas

The cheapest way of doing this is to kick the living poo out of the system you have already and sacrifice a bit of battery life then invest in a better battery. ( A lead acid battery destined to take partial charges and operational current. ) may be the cheapest option. Charge managment then gives better longgevaty. A proper system could cost a lot to build and run.
You don't get oat for nawt.
But I can help.

Other wise you can end up spending loads for no gain. Trust me.

A bit more info is needed to get the best from your system
What size inverta and what are you running from it? and what 12 v load do you want? I.e. What is the load you want to achieve?
What driving hours do you do?
When do you want to run this load during driving or at rest.
I know it's all boring stuff but my job is generators, hybrid solutions, solar and wind turbines and batteries. That's what I do and I have over 150 bits of kit on the hinkley point power station job in Somerset. This is my bag baby.

You can message me if you like and I will issue a phone number
Services are free to mates.

I now have over 50 years experience in these matters
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Uselescrapytwit View Post
A bit more info is needed to get the best from your system
What size inverta and what are you running from it? and what 12 v load do you want? I.e. What is the load you want to achieve?
None as yet. BUt main jobs for it will be to charge radios/walkie talkies, charge/power laptops, power a small compressor in the future (one capable of running impact tools)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uselescrapytwit View Post
What driving hours do you do?
Quite a lot. Probably at least 6 hours most week days, less at the weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uselescrapytwit View Post
When do you want to run this load during driving or at rest.
Both, that's why I was planning a second battery, to remove the chance on the truck failing to start if the battery drains

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uselescrapytwit View Post
That's what I do and I have over 150 bits of kit on the hinkley point power station job in Somerset. This is my bag baby.
I definitely don't need quite that much power.


Would the link in my previous post and a second battery not do the job?

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 08:51 PM
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AFAIK the NP300 has a smart alternator which means things like VSR aren't suitable.

I've got this planned out for the future.

I'm going to get the CTEK D250S (which has apparently been replaced) to make the battery to battery connection. Then I'll get a battery box for the tub and mount a small distribution/fuse board to protect my accessories.

The CTEK has the option of also connecting a solar panel if you go off-grid and need a top up.

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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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@RandomKamikaze But the one I linked to says;

"Beware of other split charge relays which may not be suitable for later vehicles with intelligent alternators, or modern vehicle wiring systems! This systems is suitable for all vehicles - whether old or new!"

That's why I'd chosen that one.


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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-10-17, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jem View Post
@RandomKamikaze But the one I linked to says;

"Beware of other split charge relays which may not be suitable for later vehicles with intelligent alternators, or modern vehicle wiring systems! This systems is suitable for all vehicles - whether old or new!"

That's why I'd chosen that one.

At the bottom of the same ad it says:

"Voltage Sensing Relays may not suitable for the very latest vehicles with Smart Alternators and Regenerative Braking Systems.*"

Bit of reading here: http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/auxili...ternators.html

Specifically:
"
Voltage Sensitive Relays cannot be used

Voltage sensitive relays*rely on voltage thresholds that trigger them to engage and disengage. Typically they engage to connect the starter and auxiliary battery together at around 13.3V and disengage to separate them at around 12.8V, which in vehicles with traditional alternators coincides with engine start-up and shut-down. *This is ideal as it makes sure that the auxiliary battery is charging whenever the engine is running. However, with a smart alternator, when the output voltage drops to below 12.8V a VSR would disengage, meaning that the auxiliary battery would have significant periods where it wouldn't be charging, even though the engine would be running (some models of VSR may not engage at all, dependent on the on-board software). VSRs can also engage and disengage frequently with the large and rapid voltage changes from a smart alternator and so the high current contacts may fail prematurely

"

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