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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I run a Navara D22 bought new in March 2005. Since then, I have covered 63,000 miles so am just out of warranty.

Imagine my surprise when the engine (big end no 3) let go just 3000 miles out of warranty! Nissan do not seem too keen on helping out with the estimated £5000 cost, despie never having missed a 6000 mile service!

I noticed a couple of posts regarding timing chain recalls, does anyone have details of chassis numbers affected by this as I've never heard about this before?

Does anybody know if this has happened to anyone else, or whether there were any recalls regarding this engine/vehicle?

Cheers
Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's 3 year or 60000 miles and I've just gone over that. Nissan customer services are not really the most flexible people in the world!
 

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kstill0101 said:
I noticed a couple of posts regarding timing chain recalls, does anyone have details of chassis numbers affected by this as I've never heard about this before?


Ken
Ken you will have to contact nissan and quote your chassis no. they will then tell you if yours came within that recall
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It seems my vehicle is too new to have been affected by the timing chain issue, still no news from Nissan, they're blaming the dealer now for not providing a report!

I might get it back by Christmas!
 

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kstill0101 said:
...might buy a HiLux next time though!
No swearing please :)

Another sign of bad customer service from the dealers which is wehy I love this job, we normally get tarred with the same brush, we're not all that bad matey, honest guv I'm a car salesman :) :) :)
 

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rattle then bang

hi mines just gone with 80k on it and nissan wont help in any way its my con rod they will fit a new motor for 6000 but whos got 6000 in the back pocket just incase dont know what to do next maybe tow it to all my local dealers with a sighn on it telling others this could be yours
 

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Sorry to hear of your troubles people. I honestly can't imagine why an engine would fail its rod/bearing if maintained well. Can I enquire to the typical usage profile; motorways, stop start, or city driving, or towing?.... I am trying to find out what it is that kills them?
 

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just normal use bit of motorway bit of stop start you know normal but my last truck started to rattle at about 65k but it was time to renew so i pitty the bloke that got it after me :?
 

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Gents,
I am a new Navara owner; may I add my thoughts to the now undeniable yet still suppressed ‘blown engine’ debate?
From what I have read (more than enough on this website alone, plenty more adverse comments right around the English speaking world also!) and researched since taking ownership of mine, I don’t think any rational person can still deny that there is definitely a built in design flaw with these engines!!
I have been in the motor trade for 38 years and cannot recall any make or indeed model of car suffering from the same critical defects especially so with the failures mostly occurring at very similar mileages.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/c ... 110326.jpg
I have just bought one (53 model & 88K miles) with a rod through both sides of the block, and the con rod end cap through the sump (it’s still in a gutter somewhere in Bristol), indeed the trader I bought mine from had another Navara (04 model & 84K miles) also with a rod through the side, both came direct from a large multi national company (JCB), with good (but not perfect service history’s).
I have extensive engine building experience from Transits through Lotus's to Porsche Carrera's, in my humble opinion gained from reading others misfortunes, and inspecting both my original blown engine and the replacement I have bought, I believe that the fundamental fault lies with con rod bolts that are NOT up to the job.
I think that the bolts are permanently damaged during the angle torquing phase of their installation, also the lack of quality of these bolts means that they pass through their elastic limits (meaning that when undone they should return to their exact original size, specification and condition) into their plastic limits (meaning that permanent changes to their dimensions has occurred (due to being overstretched), and to their molecular makeup (causing graining to take place, a form of work-hardening, leading to a critical catastrophic failure or snapping after further use).
My own blown engine undoubtedly shows a serious lack of proper servicing (looking at the service history most were carried out late) with thick sludge deposits in the sump and bad discolouration on No. 1 bearing shells.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/c ... 110332.jpg
More worrying, all of the shells fitted to the rods have ‘picked up’ on the bearing surfaces whilst those in the end caps look OK apart from the fact that there is a distinct lack of a wear surface across the entire shell, the only visible indicators being in the middle of the shells http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/c ... 110330.jpg
Indeed if you read the accounts from other unfortunate owners suffering the same catastrophic failures they do not mention a long term knocking that was getting worse with age (indicating a slow wear rate taking place), many just state that the car was driving perfectly normally, when a loud knocking was heard (I believe this to be the first bolt snapping allowing the endcap to open up) this was then closely followed by the terminal failure of a rod coming through the block (second bolt snapping)!
My only explanation for this is the failure of the securing method i.e. the end cap bolts, even if there was wear in the big ends past the accepted limits causing the characteristic big end knocking to be heard, the end cap bolts should have easily coped with this and held the parts together!
I am sure most of us will have heard an engine with severely worn big end bearings, I have heard numerous and yet none of these engines threw their rods through the blocks!!
I have worked on many cars with timing belt failures NONE have put rods through the side, even severe cases of pistons/bores being hydraulically locked after being driven through water have only resulted in bent rods.
Think about it there is very little stress on the end caps, they being under a little more stress than usual when drawing in a fresh charge of air.
A rod through the side of any engine must mean that it has become disconnected from the crankshaft journal the only way this can occur is for the bolts to come undone or snap, especially so considering the reports from owners when the failure happened.
I have also inspected the bolts from my replacement engine (24K miles), these already show a decrease in diameter of some .12mm due to stretching, and require firm use of a spanner to screw the nut along their full length, indicating permanent deformation of the bolt affecting the thread!
I am currently trying to obtain upgraded bolts NOT of Nissan origin together with a new set of big end bearing shells, however should this be unsuccessful I will have to use new Nissan bolts but modify the way they are installed by reducing the angular torqing by 66.6 or 75% (I haven't decided yet), to compensate for this I will not be fitting them oiled up (as per the Nissan technical manual) but dry, ensuring they have a copious amount of Loctite.
Looking at the results of neglected servicing I will be modifying Nissan’s schedules using semi-synthetic oil every 4,000 miles.
I only bought a Navara after taking medical advice that I ought to buy a dog to ensure I exercised an ailing back, after running Lexus LS 400's for the last eight years (where the only troubles were a battery and a set of front discs) I really am beginning to regret this decision.
Please believe me when I say that I am not slagging Navara’s off (after all I was delighted when I bought mine, it all went wrong when I looked into the reasons behind the failure) I just think that all other owners who have D22’s coming up to the dangerous 70-90K miles mark should be made aware that they need not just drive it on tenterhooks, waiting for a loud and terminal bang, there are precautionary actions they can take now to prevent a total loss of what is otherwise a very nice engine (engine does not need to come out, restoration can be done from underneath), by attending to this in good time you will save yourself a fortune and help to maintain the reputation of Navara’s.
I also agree with other contributors, and share a very serious concern that once this defect becomes general knowledge the residual value of our cars can only be expected to plummet, I was talking to a local car dealer friend of mine last week he has been offered 2 Navara’s recently from different sources at clearance prices! Both with rods through the side, he declined both because he couldn’t locate any second-hand engines.
As I have said this is only my ‘take’ on this problem I would be interested to hear what other owners thoughts are?
Also please would someone give me some good news about these cars that I can look forward to once mine is going again?
 

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are you going to advise us what we need to do to save our engines.
cheers
neil
 

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i assume all these failures are with the 2.5 litre motor ??

needs details please, what engine, what vechile, 4x2 or 4x4 etc. serviceing, style of driving etc.

no offence guys but on most forums when i ask how they where drivien and service histroy noone replys which makes it realy hard to tell if its purly mechanical failure or servicing related.


the thick sludge in chris's case is interesting. chris is that a 4x4 navara?
 

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For those that have exceeded the 60,000 warranty but still within the 3 years there is the suggestion of digital mileage correction.

Not that I would of course condone such action but when one see's that things like this are due to Nissans negligence then is there any harm in tweaking the milege. Remembering of course that if your odometer shows 70,000 miles it has more than likely only done 63-67,000 (in the same way your speedo always over-reads your speed).

So, the OP had probably done less than what the odometer said and would of been in warranty.

We are all been ripped of. Its not a 60,000 miles warranty, its a 55,000 (approx) warranty really.

Steve
 

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Hi,
In response to tweaks question:
This is a 2.5 Di 4x4 Navara, of the previous driving style I have no knowledge, but it was a company vehicle with more than one driver so I fully expect it to have had a hard life.
It had covered 88K miles before the blow- up and was serviced mostly late at:
6519, 16724, 23295, 39888, 46551, 52996, 59903, 74233, 81959 ALL at a Nissan dealership.
So it is very obvious that it was underserviced, this I think led to the build up of sludge.
That having been said whilst it may reasonably be expected that the life of the engine would be shortened, the point that concerns me most is that if wear was present in the big ends it led straight away to the bolts snapping!
There is no mention in any of the accompanying paperwork of the slightest suspicious of bearing wear, being mindful that all of the work was done at a dealership, who may be expected to recognise such progressive wear through a big end rumble, or indeed reports from any of the drivers or owners of the car.
The point I am trying to make is that I believe any wear that was present immediately before the blow-up must have been very slight in that no one heard it, as such and at the risk of labouring the point, I think it entirely reasonable for the con-rod bolts to be expected to hold the joint together, until the noise became so loud as to be acted upon.
Having found the picked up scoring on the bearing shells of the 'old' engine I am just going to inspect the shells on the 24K replacement (hoping NOT to find similar).
I am hopeful through a friend in 'the trade' who specialises in hyper tuning Japanese cars to have found replacement con-rod bolts that he uses in his built engines these are apparently good for 2,000 hp engines.
As for advising other owners on preventative work, I don't think I can do that until I have sorted out my own problems and proven the resolution by putting a few miles on the car.
I will report back if successful in due course.
Chris Vince
 

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service intervals

I have to say that the service intervals you are quoting there are quite far apart in mileage. surely if service is done every 6000miles that should help to prelong the life of the engine?
 

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and with harder driving and the small oil capacity i think the normal service interval should be 3000miles.

i wonder if they are getting a new version of "black death" ?
 

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I couldn't agree more; I would never let a diesel engine vehicle I owned go more than 5,000.
Some of you may have read my previous postings concerning blown D22 engines that I have contributed recently; this is because I bought a Navara with a blown engine thinking it was pure bad luck for the previous owner, and I would be able to simply replace the engine with a good second-hand one.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/c ... 010337.jpg
At the time I had no idea just how commonplace this catastrophe was and indeed just how many fine vehicles had been destroyed by this occurrence, very soon I realised that my original plan was only courting disaster, and I would be very uneasy during my ownership just waiting to say an unannounced hello to another con rod, so I determined to find out why this was occurring to these engines.
It's a little too early to make a statement, but I think I might have discovered why these engines let go as they do, if I am right it may also tie in with the numerous reports of engines knocking loudly on first morning start ups.
To reiterate my previous postings, I have been in the motor trade for 38 years, I have also just retired from the fire service, the last position I held was as head of fire investigation, so it could be said I have an enquiring, inquisitive, almost a policeman’s mind.
A problem such as engines that destroy themselves way before they should is really right up my street!
The same cause, in my humble opinion, poor design, linked in my case with inadequate servicing, may well be applicable to many others that have suffered the same fate.
I am also starting to think that the knocking noise so many of you have written about on morning start up is the first warning sign you need to heed without delay!
I have now stripped my old blown up engine and have taken the three remaining top shells.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/c ... 110330.jpg
To acquaintances in the motor trade (some of whom are very experienced high performance engine builders and tuners) also to my nearest Nissan dealership (where I showed them to the mechanics (I hate the term technicians), for their independent confirmation of my thoughts on how the damage was caused.
To a man, we all agreed that the bearing linings were being stripped by hammering on the power stroke, the cause being oil starvation.
In the YD25DDTi engine the oil strainer pick up pipe is bolted to the rear of the sump/oil pan, oil then travels in cast galleries across the sump and along the full length of the sump back across again at the front of the engine until it comes to a flat horizontal orifice approx 15mm dia.
Into this orifice is placed a spigoted 'O' ring.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/c ... 010336.jpg
The sump then bolts back into place the top of this oil ring just making contact with the inlet orifice of the oil pump, there is NO physical fixing, sealant etc just dry contact, it is totally reliant on there being a good firm contact, the crush pressure on the one I removed from my engine was just .033" less an amount for the sump pan sealant.
I believe that over a period of time shall we say 60-90,000 miles, and having endured numerous temperature cycles in a very hostile environment, it can be reasonably expected for the 'O' ring to change in shape, size and or malleability, thereby compromising the sealing effect.
If/when this occurs it could be reasonably assumed that air will be drawn into the oil pump causing cavitations thereby starving the engine of oil, instigating hammering on the bearings during the power stroke until an increasingly common catastrophic event occurs.
There are a number of possible causes for this to occur, some I have thought of are:
1 Failure in the efficiency of the sealing of the joint
2 Inadequate servicing leading to thickening of the oil, the thicker the oil the greater the suction pressure, allowing for the induction of air through an already weakened joint
3 Inadequate servicing leading to a blockage of the oil strainer by sludge (as in my case)
4 Incorrect grade of oil being used, a common mistake is thinking thicker is better to give greater protection, result as in 2 above
5 The additions of oil additives such as STP
In a worse case scenario where the joint has actually failed, after use and when the engine is resting it would be possible for the oil present in the oil pump and in the sump galleries (this is a considerable amount, as stated they run the length of the sump and across both ends, and are approx 25 mm dia), to seep back into the sump being replaced by air drawn in through a leaking sump to oil pump ‘O’ ring.
The knocking you experience in the mornings being the time it takes to draw fresh oil back through the galleries and up into the pump to then pressurise the bearings.
I would also couple these thoughts with what I have already stated, in my opinion the con rod bolts are not up to the job, even when there is wear in a big-end they should still hold the rods together until the knocking noise alerts the owner/driver forcing them to take notice and act upon it.
I am no metallurgist but wonder if it is possible for any big-end bearing wear, to set up resonance’s combined with the high and low frequency knockings of worn bearings such that it may have an effect on the make up of the con rod bolts effectively work hardening them into a brittle state liable for snapping when exposed to any excess stress.
I intend to replace the ‘O’ ring on my replacement (now partially stripped engine) £1-43p, but when I install it will manufacture a thin plate, and bolt it to the already tapped flange of the oil pump, the reason for this is;
1 To increase the size of the area of contact for the ‘O’ ring, as the ridge of the ring is only marginally smaller than the face of the pump orifice
2 To increase the crush value of the ‘O’ ring
3 I will also install another ‘O’ ring inside the Nissan one to increase the surface area of seal
I am also going to replace the big end shells approx £30, and of course the rod bolts but hopefully with higher grade ones.
These are just my own thoughts, I am ready to be shot down by other correspondents.
Once I have sourced and collected all of the spares I will photograph and post the results if anybody is interested.
I must say that I now feel much more content with my purchase of a Navara, especially so now that I feel I understand what is fundamentally wrong with the engines and have a plan to remedy it.
regards,
Chris Vince
 

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will you be willing to help and supply the modifications.even better make a few bob carrying out said mods.i havent started mine for 2 weeks will do tomorrow see if she rattles how long oil light stays on for.how damaged is your crank.
 
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