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It is a pro rata figure. Which is typically 20% on average of the stopping force generated by the front brakes (under normal driving conditions)....If the same force was applied to the rear it would lock up all the time and turn around. It is achieved electronically by EBD in conjunction with the ABS sensors. It is also the reason why rear brakes are always smaller than fronts. The master cylinder will also never be designed in a way that allows the same hydraulic force to be issued to all 4 wheels. The EBD will adjust all this without you knowing but it will average out at less than 20% when taken as a direct comparison to the front. This changes under emergency braking but the force will still never get any where near the fronts or ever lock the rear wheels.
Adding drums to the rear is a very cheap and easy way of creating the natural braking imbalance without making huge adjustments to everything else. Adding the rear disks has necessitated adding larger disks/callipers/ pads to the front to reinstate the needed front to back difference as the new rear brakes are way more efficient than the drums.

The drums do have a better handbrake function than a internal top hat rear disk in most cases but some prefer drums for off-road use.
 

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Im afraid rear brakes having only 20% of the effort of the front brakes is an accident waiting to happen( even the handbrake alone has to have a minimum of 25% of total GVW for effort. it is much more likely to cause jack kniffing than the back brakes being over efficient a 60-40 split is the maximum I would ever feel comfortable with . of course under dynamic braking there will always be tendency to throw more weight forward to the front axle however thats what the LSV is there for to maintain the safe split of braking force irrespective of individual dynamic loading.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
As mentioned I am more annoyed as I had specifically asked about the new model, mainly that now my "new truck" is now the old model. It probably wouldn't affect the residual that much and hey why do I care, I havn't bought it but I just hate getting bad value - I feel I was pushed to some extant into making an order for a vehicle that was going to be obsolete by the time I collected it. Interestingly they are now trying to tell us we didn't pay the deposit, I'm sure we did but really its more fool them and I'll take that as compensation for the wrong number plates on it and the dirty interior! Aesthetically the rear disks are miles better but it doesn't really matter for my usage. Its not fully loaded and I don't tow anything. One thing I have noticed with the brakes on this one is the sheer amount of brake dust they generate. They do seem better than on the manual, I'm sure the pad material has changed if I'm honest. I always felt the manuals brakes were a bid wooden, really had to push to get it to stop but the pads were long lasting. The autos brakes are better, despite having limited engine braking - Although I have noticed that then the old Jatco in the middle, isn't napping it does occasionally have a go at a braking assistance downshift!



Rear braking... totally correct with the figures. 20% is an absolute max when considering the distribution in any standard vehicle. Any more than that and you would have lots of people spinning around in circles when cornering in the wet and adding in the brakes.

The 40% increase in the newer model is mostly down to the improvements up front. Having said that I would prefer the rear disk but just for an aesthetic reason. My rear drums are rusted to hell.

Also.... I had a service last Thursday... they sent me a video of my brake pads and a vernier calliper measurement of my disks. They were totally finished at 18800 miles. The brakes are pretty good for a truck but the life is terrible.
You will probably get 50k miles with yours Quavey due to your motorway miles but most rural or urban drivers are going to be less than half that. They wanted 400 to replace the disks and pads.
I laughed but then haggled down and got them for 320 as I just don’t have the time to do it myself at the moment. A real shame as there are genuine Nissan pads and disks on eBay for 169 delivered..... but hey ho... I wasted 150 quid but my time is more valuable at present so went with Nissan.


Re the fuel..... that’s quite interesting figures you are getting Quavey.... good to see you also can’t get more than 61 litres in. I thought it was just me..... having said that you did achieve over 70 with your first fill after the dealer supplied with zero fuel?
It would suggest to me that the fuel left reading is massively underestimating as you have proved 70 odd is able to be fitted in. I don’t want to run out and a modern diesel really doesn’t want to be allowed to run dry so I guess it’s done for that reason. Most times my display reads ”- -“ I would estimate I have at least 40 miles left in the tank as I cannot ever get more than 60 litres in before it spills on the forecourt.



The X5 is surprising! The Jeep Grand Cherokee I had found wet grass on the level a problem but the “SAV” F15 has no such problem. It’s quite a good system to be fair! The Jeep was hugely over powered and geared for tearing off the mark so I suppose it had a good excuse........the X5 is good.....but not as good as the Navara! Had to put it in 4wd the other day as I was on site and needed to get up a very difficult bank. Everyone laughed as my rears spun up and it went nowhere... they were surprised when I told them I’ll have to pop it in 4wd as they thought it was full time. Once selected nothing could stop it. It went everywhere! Very impressed although could I get it out of 4wd?? It just wouldn’t deselect until I did a few reverse/forward/reverse manoeuvres... it was annoying.
The 4wd system was hugely impressive though, I think it will go into some serious terrain... it also pulled a scissor lift out of mud without batting an eyelid.

I’ll test it out properly one day.


Big old quote...! But yes quite surprised with the X5, it'll have to be sold soon as I've no space for it but still using it occasionally for doing tip runs etc (I can no longer take a pickup to my local tip!)

I've only ever used the Navara in the snow to be honest and it was OK, I will take this one round the farm when I get chance - to be honest its not the best to go riding round there all the time so my friend and I have to pick our moments to make sure his dad is happy with us to do it.

Fuel economy is interesting, its awful round town but seems better on a run. Net result is it'll probably work out the same as the manual long term. I've filled it a couple of times since, now up to around 1700 miles the "second" tank was 37mpg and the others were 34mpg or so. Can't complain really although the smaller fuel tank is a bit annoying. A word on capacity, I managed 69.5l on the very first fill but it was very very empty, however from the "light" just coming on it was 58l or so. I've not run it low since, problem is if I have a 250 mile plus journey to make I might as well fill it up before I go regardless of where it is. Mansfield on Monday, Glasgow on Tuesday and return Wednesday which is over 600 miles - now the Euro 5 wouldn't manage that so I'd have probably filled when getting back from Mansfield on Monday anyway (twice in a day!) but this one will make it to Mansfield and back and up to Glasgow so I might try that 450 miles or so will be a good test to see whats left.

I've mentioned the huge range thing before on 4x4 vehicles, it seems quite common mainly due to the huge amount of fuel used when off roading to give you at least half a chance of getting home - even when you think its going to run out! The X5 has a fairly manly 93 tank (although not quite as manly as the 104l example in an L322!) however I bet once its begging for fuel it would only take mid to late 70's same with the L322, light is on and its an 85l fill giving almost 20l (half a tank on a small car!) left as the emergency reserve.
 

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Totally agree with your range light theory.

It is a shame they are so inaccurate as I like things to be accurate! I totally understand the logic though.

At least I know the ‘- -‘ in the mileage means that I have at least 9 litres remaining. That’s around 45 miles at my usage...which funnily enough is about exactly right! The remaining miles go from 40 to - - with nothing in between. It cannot display a mileage in the 30’s or 20’s. I will just reset the trip when - - is displayed and do 40 miles max after that point.

It’s been really helpful to know you have got nearly 70litres in yours. I was convinced the tank was smaller!


Our X5 will take over 100 litres... I think it has the larger tank spec. The wife loves it as she only has to fill up fortnightly now.

I shall be keeping my Tekna.....I did get offers of 18500 but I wanted more to get to a Discovery 4..... oh well...one day......... I replaced the brakes so may as well use them up! I don’t notice the brake dust you mention as my wheels are the trek wheels and black but yes the pads and disks are very soft but at least they stop well!


Keep the updates coming.... I’m sure 450 is easily achievable on the motorway.

Safe motoring. :awesomework
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Ah your X5 must be newer than my old one. E53 is a relatively compact "large 4x4" actually - won't be long in my fleet it'll have to go soon for space.

So life is never simple, supposed to be in Glasgow tomorrow but my MD has cancelled the meeting however I have been to Mansfield today which equates to a 296 mile round trip (shocking to be honest, I'm sure someone has moved it!) I filled up before we left and as it did well I thought I'd fill up again to see what it actually done, just a tiny fraction of a needle width more than 1/2 a tank used. showing 317 miles on the remaining range and 34.48l to fill after that distance.

Which is a genuine 39mpg give or take with no real effort I have to say. I had a good run but there is 10 miles of town at the far end to and from the motorway. Interestingly the dash claimed 42mpg on the way there and 43.5mpg on the way back so its still about 10% (give or take) over estimating but I can say the manual wouldn't have done that, 37.xmpg would have been the best out of the Euro5.

Range showing 624 miles on leaving the petrol station, although I could get the Euro5 to show over 700! Average speed and average economy from new are now 42mph and 39.5mpg, after 100k in the other one they were 42mph and 38.6mpg.

 

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Discussion Starter #26
Closing in on 3000 miles now, certainly will pass through it tomorrow. I'd say it was nicely run in and to be fair it seems be driving well. Another minor annoyance from Chalkes, to be fair it doesn't matter but its just a real case of being very very mean... The washer fluid bottle, was filled with just plain water no cleaning agent at all. I've no idea if that is common but I've collected several new vans over the years and never not had washer fluid in the washer bottle. A few "long" screen washes got the low level warning light on and I've filled it up with some carplans finest blue flavor.

Speaking of which, no request for adblu as yet so it will be interesting to see how long a tank of that lasts.

Now onto more interesting things, (for me anyway!) 51.1mpg the other day over a 50 mile trip in the auto. I will admit this was from leaving a service station on a warm engine and a steady motorway cruise to a customer - still mighty impressive.



I managed 46.6mpg on the way back today over a 120 mile trip, refueled and it displayed a range of 646 miles - not bad for a little tank!



Actual real world calculated economy at the pumps is between 37 and 39 mpg which is a couple better than the manual. Dash now showing 39.8mpg from new, and a 86 on the economy score. Average speed from new is 42mph - same as the manual was which shows I drive at the same speed.
 

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Hi s60r


Could you please tell me where you got your I-Drive and if you had to pay duty on it?


Thanks
Shaun
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Some news, I collect the Tekna on the 19th June, really its first day in service for me was a couple of weeks later at the start of July, old truck went back on the 3rd July. So its really done 5 weeks work now and we have been busy - Amazingly it passed through 5000 miles today which seems to have come up rather quickly. Fuel economy is better than the manual on a run but considerably worse around town, overall it probably works out about the same with the auto perhaps being 1mpg better. The smaller tank is annoying though, realistically its 400 miles or 450 at a pinch where as 500 miles was easy in the Euro5. However one thing I really must mention is the Adblue consumption, as of yet it hasn't asked for any which has surprised me based on other peoples experiences. There is no obvious mention in the manual as to how many miles it should do on a tank of adblue but its a 17.8l tank and I will wait in suspense for the low level warning!

Rest of the fleet, the X5 is still here. For sale, I don't use it and don't need. But the main problem, the house over the road has completed which means I've lost a parking space (or in the process of, they havn't yet moved in and I'm unsure if they are just going to renovate it and sell it on or live in it but either way, its not fair to leave 17 feet of Navara outside their house. X5 has been reliable, the battery isn't the strongest and 10 days or so is about the limit before she will need a jump but still, just a case of using it each week. Annoyingly it drives really well and I wish I could justify keeping it. (Inevitably I
I've been looking at rubbish with a green oval badge on the front but I've given my self a good talking to and banned my self from ebay/autotrader!)

The F11 has behaved its self as normal, its coming up for a service now so I'm deliberating whether to get it done at the dealer to preserve its main dealer history or if we should just get it done at a random garage. BMWs pricing for older cars is very competitive it has to be said. It did need two tyres last month, annoyingly one had worn very badly mainly in relation to where the rear airbag had failed earlier this year on the inside edge and I hadn't seen it before it got to a state of being very bad. Anyway all changed and it drives better for it.

The M5, well its still here I don't use it much - just 4k miles in 18 months, quite ironic compared to the 5k in 5 weeks in the Tekna! However its reliable and still incredibly fast and the noise... just unreal compared to most modern Turbocharged stuff. It had developed a bit of a creak in the front suspension so the other week I ordered a set of arms and drop links etc for the front end. I had a mechanic fit some of them last weekend but he was unable to do the main arms (although the existing ones do not have any play, the bits that have been replaced were the ones that were in poor condition). Its booked in for tracking on Monday to straighten up the front end. MOT and annual service due in October I expect it'll have done around 2500 miles in between MOT's.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Cruised through 7500 miles today on the way back from a team building weekend in Scotland.

However 7512 miles and an Adblue Warning - the first one since collecting it so I don't think its done so bad. I can't quite recall the figures but I expect its about half full which isn't too bad really. Its currently outside showing 100 miles on the range after covering 420 miles on the last tank.
 

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Showing some excellent figures!

I would leave the adblue until you get the countdown.... it won’t take the 10litre refill... I think the initial refill warning appears at around half full and it only takes around 8 litres to spill out over the paintwork.
Wash it off though! Paint doesn’t enjoy adblue!
(If it’s left on there).
 

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Cheers I will buy one I think and keep it handy, I was surprised it beeps every time the engine is started to ask for a refil but not displaying any countdown numbers. I think I've another 600 miles this week so will see what it asks for after that.

Yes will make sure none of it gets on the paint, I can imagine it isnt great for the finish!
 

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Cheers I will buy one I think and keep it handy, I was surprised it beeps every time the engine is started to ask for a refil but not displaying any countdown numbers. I think I've another 600 miles this week so will see what it asks for after that.

Yes will make sure none of it gets on the paint, I can imagine it isnt great for the finish!
Just wipe it off it wont damage the paint work . We use a lot and have never seen damaged paint from spills . When it dries it leaves white crystals that will grow but again that just wipes off. So much fake news about ad blu. Its so safe its used as an airfield deicer because its non corrosive.
 

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Yes keep one handy, the countdown started for me at 620 to empty.
From the initial warning, I had to cover over another 1000 miles before the countdown was displayed.
Once the countdown starts it takes over your dash display and cannot be cancelled. The initial warning is easily removed every start with a single button press.

There is no way you can run it out accidentally.
 

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Interestingly mine did exactly the same, 620miles which is pretty much 1000km. The warning came on at 8382 miles, 870 miles after the initial warning. It did seem to count down largely inline with the distance covered.

I've tipped a 10l container in which its taken in its entirety but I've no idea if its now full or not as there is of course no actual gauge. I suppose I'll find out in 7k miles or so!
 

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It will be almost full now if it’s like mine.

If I refill with 10 litres before the countdown appears I only get 8 -9 litres of the refill in.


The only way I have got it to swallow 10 litres is to await the countdown. It all depends how annoying you find the beep on start up! With my usage it can be 3 or 4 weeks before I see the countdown appear after the initial warning! With your usage it’s probable only a matter of a day or 2! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Yeah 1400 miles this week and I know about it!

Just finished a demanding project on Friday so hopefully should calm down a bit now.
 

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Quick fleet update:

Big news is the X5 has gone, finally, so I am no longer having to run and hide from various random neighbours that find 5.3m of navara abandoned out side their house. Anyway, in summary not a bad car to be fair a touch underpowered with the 3.0i but nice and quiet. If I had bought a N62 V8 version I might have fought to keep it more.

F11, went for a service and brake fluid change the other day at the main dealer, a very reasonable £193. Potentially could have been slightly cheaper at a local garage but it does include a wash and vac and the stamp in the book.

E60 M5 due a service soon, actually in for a recall next week at the dealer who are going to MOT it at the same time. Now the X5 has gone I might spend a bit on it.

Tekna, now up to 9500 miles I expect to push through 10k this week which seems to have come round quickly. Economy isn't bad, 37mpg yesterday on a tank, including crossing the A69 and A66 (these are calculated figures, the dash shows more than 40mpg). Not much to report really other than the gearbox is stupid at times, part of me wishes the timing would have worked out for me to have at least tried the new manual gearbox but for the most part its OK. Just when trying to overtake sometime and it makes a stupid lunging downshift to 3800rpm where there is no power and seems to hang for an age before changing up and using some torque makes it very frustrating. Where I know in the manual just dropping a gear or two I could have leaned on the torque to overtake or get by the problem but then the refinement is so much better in the auto its worth putting up with. The small fuel tank is also annoying me a bit although as above the actual economy is slightly better than the manual the lack of capacity does blunt the range quite a bit.
 

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Navara 12,400 miles on the clock now I really appear to be doing more miles than ever at the moment! Annoyingly my long term average has dropped to 38.9mpg on the dash. I think the poor weather and being in a rush recently hasn't helped. Having just finished a working stretch of 12 days straight which included some time on the German autobahn de-restricted section - indicated top speed reached was 112mph which felt software limited rather than anything else. Interestingly this is about 5mph down on the manual. I've just finished a large project at work and also dealt with our main trade show of the year, the next thing I will turn my attention to is to develop a product which should mean more time in the office (my cabin in the garden) and less time staring at rain on the M6 so hopefully my mileage and fuel consumption will drop dramatically.

M5 has barely moved recently, its been for its MOT and a recall at BMW along with an aircon refresh. I'm still yet to book it in for a service it has only done 2200 miles since its last oil change but its been a year and it can't hurt so I will get it done soon.

520d has also passed its MOT, having covered 10k miles in a year it apparently requires a front tyre but it looks OK to me (black and round, I've drawn the tread pattern back on) . Will give it a couple of months and fit another pair.

As for the X5, well its of course gone, I've still got a (sizzling) envelope full of money and I've been exceptionally well behaved and not bought anything. If I put it in the bank it'll look even more enticing! However I have been getting an itch for something new perhaps to replace the M5, maybe a newer one or something else. Not sure - this is largely linked to not driving the black monster outside a few excursions round the rev counter to 8000rpm and 500bhp soon stops any thought of selling. The noise is just something else.
 

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Navara 12,400 miles on the clock now I really appear to be doing more miles than ever at the moment! Annoyingly my long term average has dropped to 38.9mpg on the dash. I think the poor weather and being in a rush recently hasn't helped. Having just finished a working stretch of 12 days straight which included some time on the German autobahn de-restricted section - indicated top speed reached was 112mph which felt software limited rather than anything else. Interestingly this is about 5mph down on the manual. I've just finished a large project at work and also dealt with our main trade show of the year, the next thing I will turn my attention to is to develop a product which should mean more time in the office (my cabin in the garden) and less time staring at rain on the M6 so hopefully my mileage and fuel consumption will drop dramatically.

M5 has barely moved recently, its been for its MOT and a recall at BMW along with an aircon refresh. I'm still yet to book it in for a service it has only done 2200 miles since its last oil change but its been a year and it can't hurt so I will get it done soon.

520d has also passed its MOT, having covered 10k miles in a year it apparently requires a front tyre but it looks OK to me (black and round, I've drawn the tread pattern back on) . Will give it a couple of months and fit another pair.

As for the X5, well its of course gone, I've still got a (sizzling) envelope full of money and I've been exceptionally well behaved and not bought anything. If I put it in the bank it'll look even more enticing! However I have been getting an itch for something new perhaps to replace the M5, maybe a newer one or something else. Not sure - this is largely linked to not driving the black monster outside a few excursions round the rev counter to 8000rpm and 500bhp soon stops any thought of selling. The noise is just something else.
Took my manual onto the airfield and managed 116 on GPS rather than the clock ,still would have gone further but is definitely being limited as it does more rpm in a lower gear. I only pushed it just past 3k rpm.
 

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Took my manual onto the airfield and managed 116 on GPS rather than the clock ,still would have gone further but is definitely being limited as it does more rpm in a lower gear. I only pushed it just past 3k rpm.
Is that your manual with the new gearbox? Or an old close ratio one?
 
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