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Four wheel Drive D40 Enquiry

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87K views 116 replies 55 participants last post by  miran  
#1 ·
Can anyone assist, this question may sound stupid, however this is my first four wheel drive vehicle,whenever I switch the Navara to four wheel drive Hi I find that whenever I turn a sharp corner or turn the steering to full lock the Navara what I can only explain as 'locks up', is this the norm.
I first experienced this when attempting to launch my boat, as I drove out of the driveway towards the local beach which is only situated 50 yards away I had the four wheel Hi selected and then noticed it to appear to lock, I then selected 2 wheel and then for approx 30 seconds the assumed fault was still there and the four wheel drive indicator was still flashing. I have approached the local dealership and he looked at me as if I was the village idiot, however he did not attempt to even try it and did not give me any reasurance.
 
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#2 ·
Its 'normal' for any non centre dif' equipped 4 wheel drive car for this to happen.

This should be a sticky really:-

When you go round a corner, all the wheels trace different lines (as you can see when driving on grass / mud etc) - therefore they all drive at slightly different speed - hence the need for a diff..

But - the Nav' doesnt have one in middle (separating front to back) - and so all the wheels try to turn at the same speed - the more lock you use, the more it tries to go at a different speed. The only way for it to happen is for it to skid slightly one or more wheels

On good surfaces this causes enormous strain on the car - so DONT do it! Only use 4wd when you are slipping or about to slip.
 
#3 ·
Yes this is normal. I've typed and deleted 6 explanations that all sounded greek, this is my last attempt.
You know why you've got a diff in your axle on a normal car, well this is the same but you've no center diff. with full time 4 wheel drive they have a center diff.
P.S If you'd bought an L200 this wouldn't be happening. but you'd go slower and look daft.
 
#4 ·
Thanks

Many thanks for the reply, it's a pity that I can't get that kind of technical response from my dealer.
I am due to drive the Nav to France next month, going skiing with the family and I had major concerns about drive'n in the snow with what I thought to be a problem.
Thanks again for the reply.
 
#5 ·
there a few threads with bigger explinations , often called "wind up" but as said it can be very destructive to the drive train. but if it locks up, take out of 4wd and put one wheel on soft ground, grass ect and just drive forward to make slip, and it will alow the gear backlash ect to free off. even when you take it out of 4wd the freeplay can still be wound up for a long time.
if you need the control and power to launch your boat down the ramp, i know how slippy/ hazardous this can be, then use it but keep steering to a min, and then use the slip/grass method before going onto main road. and snow wont be a problem, in 4wd it will handle like a surefooted yeti, great.
 
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#6 ·
Ah - here we go:-

Stolen from www.4x4abc.com

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If you own a vehicle with part time 4WD the need for different rpm front and rear represents a major problem. The transfer case will power the front and rear drive shafts with same rpm and is not able to satisfy the front axle's need for more rpm. Remember, the combined rpm of front wheels (A+B) is higher than the combined rpm of the rear wheels (C+D). Only full time 4WD systems are able to negotiate the needs of front and rear.

So, with part time 4WD engaged your front wheels are forced by good traction on the ground to rotate faster than the rear - but since the front drive shaft delivers only the same rpm as to the rear there is a fight between front wheels and rational force coming from the front drive shaft. The front drive shaft in effect tries to slow down the front wheels. This results in very wide turns (understeer) and dangerous handling on pavement.

The name "part time" derives from its use. It can only be used part of the time - most of the time (for most uses) it has to remain in 2WD. Only "full time" - notice the name - can be used full time for all uses.

The fight between front wheels and transfer case also makes 4WD performance suffer - the front wheels are not pulling like they should. They are in effect hindered by the front drive shaft.

The slowing effect caused by front wheels stresses all components between wheels and the transmission. It causes mechanical components to bind instead of moving freely - this situation is called "axle binding" ,"driveline binding" or "driveline wind up". First indicators while driving is a hard steering feel and the vehicle displaying jerky movement. Shifting back to 2WD will become impossible (gears and levers are extremely forced together). Continued 4WD use on dry surfaces will cause the weakest links to break (U-Joints, axles, differential gears, transfer case gears and chains, bearings, drive shafts).

When starting from a standstill with sharply turned wheels: The need for higher rpm in the front will most likely prevent you from getting started at all. If you step on the gas really hard (plus slipping your clutch) you might get the vehicle moving with spinning rear wheels but stress on all driveline components will be dangerously high. Chance is that you will break something.

When traveling with part time 4WD on high traction surfaces like asphalt, concrete, etc. handling of the vehicle will become unsafe (understeer) and the "driveline binding" will eventually cause component failures. Part time 4WD should not be used on high traction surfaces! Even when going straight most of the time, slight differences in tire pressure front to rear or vehicle load resulting in different axle speeds will cause "wind up" and eventually damage.

When traveling with part time 4WD on low traction surfaces like sand, gravel, mud, snow, etc. handling of the vehicle is unsafe (understeer) as well, but not as severe as on pavement. The slowed down front wheels simply skid a little on gravel, sand, snow, etc. during a turn. This in mind you should always approach difficult off-road obstacles in a straight line otherwise you might lose some of the much needed traction due to wheel slip on your front wheels.

Do not listen to guys who tell you it is OK to use part time 4WD on pavement! Severe damage will be the result.

Here is another important fact: Since front and rear axles are not able to rotate independently ABS will not work properly.
 
#8 ·
quick question regarding the 4wd mode then, is it safe to use in a straight line & icy conditions etc at faster speeds? eg, getting up a hill.

i may sound a bit thick here, but as others have said this is my 1st 4x4 vehicle, and i just kinda expected it to "work" my missus was hoping to use my nav to get to work during bad weather, as she works up the south wales valley's and they get alot worse conditions up there.

thanks in advance.
 
#9 ·
Squire,
Absolutely. The only time to avoid using it is when you don't really need it , ie When all four wheels have good traction on a firm surface.

I would recommend that you have a little practice in 4x2 and 4x4 on an icy carpark so you get used to the different handling / steering characteristics.

You may notice that in 4x4 on ice, the car will have a stronger desire to go in a straighter line when you try and turn a tight corner. This is normal and easily coped with once you are used to it.
 
#11 ·
asked nissan about this problem b4 i read all of the above....

this is the reply they sent me.....

Unfortunately we are not able to answer such questions from a distance.We strongly recommend you however to read the owner`s manual, there are extensive instructions how to operate a 4WD vehicle properly (pages 5-16 to 5-26, printing August 2006). As we can only guess, maybe you left the rear differential locked and this is why you have difficulties at cornering.

so, first issue, i bought my nav 2nd hand, i dont have a manual,

second, they make it sound as if u can unlock the rear diff?
 
#12 ·
Squire,
I seriously doubt you have a locked rear diff. (Either a locked locker, knackered limited slip or whatever)

However, to confirm it I'd:
Put the car in 2WD, confirm it has disengaged 4x4 (light off).
Chock the front wheels to prevent the vehicle from rolling.
Leave it in neutral, handbrake off...
Jack one of the rear wheels off the ground.
Secure the chassis / axle with a proper stand.
Try and rotate the raised wheel by hand.

If it moves, the diff is open. If it won't the diff may be locked...
 
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G
#14 ·
It has a limited slip diff front and rear.

The yanks get an option for a dif lock button (located next to the seat heater switches in ours) - but we dont get it...

I wonder if it could be retrofitted?
 
#18 ·
I'm going to miss my Impreza that has a DCCD (Driver Controlled Centre Differential).

I can go from fully open with a torque split of 65r:35f to fully locked and anywhere inbetween.

Most of the time unless it is raining I don't have any lock applied but in the snow with the centre locked it would perform the same 4x4 principle as the Navara.

The only thing I could not do was to disconnect drive to one of the axles, which causes transmission losses and lower MPG's.

To get to the point, with the impreze centre diff locked the car would physically stop when turning on full lock. It you really pushed it, it would bang and crack as the wheels and rear LSD tried to slip. Quite a few owners have damaged their transmissions this way.

The Navara has the tarnsfer box in the middle and I believe that this could have had a viscous centre diff fitted. But, this would not be lockable and to be honest I hated my viscous diff on the Impreza..

Just my thoughts.
 
#19 ·
A good simple rule you could use is (for beginners) is that if you think you can go faster than 10mph don't leave it in 4x4! Most situations you can easily manage in 2wd with good car control, it just keeps you going a bit longer...

I have a boat too, and depending on the ramp I don't even use 4wd just no need for it...Only had to use it on our driveway but then I found out I had the brakes still on on my trailer and the Nav just pushed through them :shock: Expensive lesson learned...
 
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#21 ·
diggerman said:
Hi, I used to have a pickup with manual free front hubs and I used 4low to start off with hubs disengaged to save clutch.( with heavily laden trailer)

Now with my d22 i am wary of tranny wind up on hard surfaces
The question is why use 4wd on hard surfaces? It is very simple really if the wheels are slipping then use 4wd to get more traction until you no longer require otherwise dont :thumbright:
 
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#22 ·
dejongj said:
diggerman said:
Hi, I used to have a pickup with manual free front hubs and I used 4low to start off with hubs disengaged to save clutch.( with heavily laden trailer)

Now with my d22 i am wary of tranny wind up on hard surfaces
The question is why use 4wd on hard surfaces? It is very simple really if the wheels are slipping then use 4wd to get more traction until you no longer require otherwise dont :thumbright:
Hi, I only use 4 low on hard surfaces when starting off with heavy load 4.5-5 tons :oops:
 
#23 ·
Wow, this sounds like the most unuseable 4x4 ever...I just bought a Nav, and it seems that because I was slipping earlier as I tried to climb over a kerb in the wet, then I selected 4hi and although it pulled up, with the wheels slipping a little...this is a really bad thing to do and I risked damaging my trucks drivetrain...when can you use the bloody 4wd then? In a straight line only and then only if it's on ice or similar..???? !!! Confused...??? hell yes.
 
#24 ·
Im unsure of your problem guitardoctor.You only use 4wd when the conditions mean traction in 2wd is no longer possible,you never drive with 4wd engaged on the road unless the road is icy enough for sufficeinet wheel slip.If sufficient wheel slip cannot be achieved and your hammering it down the road in 4wd then things will go bang!Only use 4wd when offroad or if the roads are extremely slippery.The D40 is fitted with a LSD diff in the rear so the traction is good even in 2wd,may i suggest a decent set of tyres mate as the duelers are absolute pants! how you couldnt climb a wet curb in 2wd is beyond me chap :scratch: 4wd can be used for short periods in the dry on the road but put it back in 2wd immediately,no damage will be caused by this :thumbright:
 
#25 ·
theguitardoctor said:
Wow, this sounds like the most unuseable 4x4 ever...
The big difference is the 4x4 system is a proper one designed for off road situations rather than the general school run, wet road, may get slippy type car. The benefit of having a locked centre diff is when on the slippy stuff it can ensure more chance of traction which other 'on road' 4x4s just wouldn't cope with.
 
#26 ·
It must have been the Duellers then as I had to hit the 4wd for about 30 seconds to get up the incline/kerb. Hard to explain what its like, but its a seriously crappy carpark...it may as well be off roading..!! I think I'm ok, I only selected 4wd with the wheels straight in neutral, standstill, then shut it off as soon as I got into the space..!!

The rule is then that only use the 4wd when the wheels are just spinning....? I did read somewhere on here that the 4wd needed using as it helped the parts stay lubricated...not possible unless I purposely take it off road each month..? I supposed I could cut straight across the field to work...? :lol:
 
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