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I thought that was the point of them having 16s and not 17s like on the Nav!! :? :?

Think is more to do with how high the hilux is of the ground! to me they look like the tower way above the nav when you pull along side one...

Infact i was on my way to Fleetwood this morning and hit the country roads and had a hilux behind me (white one, looked like one from one of the power companies) and i blipped it round a few corners and didnt like they way the hilux seems to be leaning and almost drifting/sliding about where as the Nav was solid without a twich......
 
yeah Rob, i think its because of the instability of the van as a whole.

Andy, didn't the Lux fail the "deer" test? that's the one where you have to make a sudden pull to escape a head-on collision at 30 mph. every time they did it, the Lux rolled over :shock:
 
I am still amazed that 4x4 planet choose it as the pickup of the year. It does make me wonder whether these magazines actually drive the vehicles they review. And don't let me start about the drab interior.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
biggy said:
yeah Rob, i think its because of the instability of the van as a whole.

Andy, didn't the Lux fail the "deer" test? that's the one where you have to make a sudden pull to escape a head-on collision at 30 mph. every time they did it, the Lux rolled over :shock:
yeah, they call it the "elk" test, and the reason its not been made an official recall is that Toyota claimed they couldnt make it do it.
What interests me is why they have targeted the wheels and tyres and not the suspension... :scratch:
I wonder if the 15" are a bigger offset than the 16" and so widen the track?
 
dejongj said:
I am still amazed that 4x4 planet choose it as the pickup of the year. It does make me wonder whether these magazines actually drive the vehicles they review. And don't let me start about the drab interior.
...or how much kick-back they get from manufacturers 8) (allegedly of course :mrgreen: )
 
mowerman said:
biggy said:
yeah Rob, i think its because of the instability of the van as a whole.

Andy, didn't the Lux fail the "deer" test? that's the one where you have to make a sudden pull to escape a head-on collision at 30 mph. every time they did it, the Lux rolled over :shock:
yeah, they call it the "elk" test, and the reason its not been made an official recall is that Toyota claimed they couldnt make it do it.
What interests me is why they have targeted the wheels and tyres and not the suspension... :scratch:
I wonder if the 15" are a bigger offset than the 16" and so widen the track?
elk, deer, moose....same thing :reindeer:

and i have always wondered why the didnt do something to eithe lower or stiffen the suspension.....seems like a no-brainer :scratch:
 
biggy said:
mowerman said:
biggy said:
yeah Rob, i think its because of the instability of the van as a whole.

Andy, didn't the Lux fail the "deer" test? that's the one where you have to make a sudden pull to escape a head-on collision at 30 mph. every time they did it, the Lux rolled over :shock:
yeah, they call it the "elk" test, and the reason its not been made an official recall is that Toyota claimed they couldnt make it do it.
What interests me is why they have targeted the wheels and tyres and not the suspension... :scratch:
I wonder if the 15" are a bigger offset than the 16" and so widen the track?
elk, deer, moose....same thing :reindeer:

and i have always wondered why the didnt do something to eithe lower or stiffen the suspension.....seems like a no-brainer :scratch:

I think you'll find it's called the moose test
You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZF8N9NItHI
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
the problem came from Sweden and they have Elk, not Moose - you can hear the guy say "elk test" in swedish :thumbright: :reindeer: (Moo!)
I would reckon an American put the vid on, hence his use of moose :scratch:
 
Stupid question, but is there a difference between an Elk and a Moose?

Is it like Americans having a side walk and the UK using the proper term pavement? ;-)

It seems a bit dodgy that Toyota are making a big deal about the new Invincible 200 being the most powerful pick-up in the UK, then saying its got to have smaller wheels so it doesn't tip over if you have to swerve. Is that why they launched the latest Hilux with the 102PS D4-D initially as they didn't feel it was safe to handle anymore power? ;-) Joking aside, I really like the Hilux, but this must be an embarassment for them.

I was told the logic of going for the same rolling radius but smaller wheel, was that the tyre itself would have a slightly higher sidewall and would therefore start to roll earlier and run wide sooner. On the bigger wheel, but same rolling radius the slight reduction in sidewall height meant less flex and so the truck would be less inclined to skid and more likely to grip and so roll over! ie on 15" it is more likely to skid wide on 16" it is less likely to run wide and so load up the outside of the truck more and induce a roll.

Sort of made sense, but to me its only a small difference! Surely 1/2 inch on the radius won't make that much difference? Would they not have been better going for a slightly narrower tyre instead?

Sounds very odd to me! Plus I've got a Navara on 17" wheels and it grips and handles great so I don't care :partycheer:

Harvey
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Elk - Europe, moose, USA. :reindeer: In USA the Elk is different to the moose, but thier moose is the same as the European elk :scratch:
I thought that about the rims - only dropping 1" doesnt seem like enough to change the way the tyres work. Could understand it if it was from 22" to 15" rims.
Either way, they are saying the 16" rims may roll the truck, but the 15" rims will give you less grip... :shock:
Gosh, glad i got a navara! :partycheer: :thumbleft:
 
harveyg77 said:
I was told the logic of going for the same rolling radius but smaller wheel, was that the tyre itself would have a slightly higher sidewall and would therefore start to roll earlier and run wide sooner. On the bigger wheel, but same rolling radius the slight reduction in sidewall height meant less flex and so the truck would be less inclined to skid and more likely to grip and so roll over! ie on 15" it is more likely to skid wide on 16" it is less likely to run wide and so load up the outside of the truck more and induce a roll.

Sort of made sense, but to me its only a small difference! Surely 1/2 inch on the radius won't make that much difference? Would they not have been better going for a slightly narrower tyre instead?
Harvey
remember, the tyre is rubber filled with air. it is designed to flex with changes in road surface. so the more height of rubber/air you have, the greated the chance of flex. and that amount of flex increases proportionally to distance from the rim (turning moment physics). of course this is assuming the air pressure of the tyre is enough to keep the tyre sidewall off the ground.
 
Elk - Europe, moose, USA. In USA the Elk is different to the moose, but thier moose is the same as the European elk
Can't believe we are discussing the difference between a :reindeer: and a :reindeer: .....seems to be not a lot of difference :lol:

Would it of been better if they had blinged it up with really big/wide wheels and low profiles....would that make it more stable....A bit like the X5 wheels for example???
 
Shooter said:
Elk - Europe, moose, USA. In USA the Elk is different to the moose, but thier moose is the same as the European elk
Can't believe we are discussing the difference between a :reindeer: and a :reindeer: .....seems to be not a lot of difference :lol:

Would it of been better if they had blinged it up with really big/wide wheels and low profiles....would that make it more stable....A bit like the X5 wheels for example???
yep, wider wheels would mean greater stability (lower centre of gravity). but the stresses on the rear axle would increase and that would mean possibly more warranty issues later.
 
I think Mercedes had similar problems with their a class and their smart 2 seater initially, they also adopted the tactic of less grip so you would understear into the "Elk/Moose/Deer/Badger/Rabbit/Hedghog/dog/cat/door mouse/woodlouse/ant" (or whatever test you want to call it) instead of rolling on top if it :?
 
harveyg77 said:
biggy said:
yep, wider wheels would mean greater stability (lower centre of gravity).
How do wider wheels lower the centre of gravity? :scratch:
my bad, meant to say more road surface contact therefore more stability
 
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