Cooling system being difficult.

Ben Trout · Jul 17, 2013

Hello all. D22 on a 53 plate.

Thursday on my way home from work, the truck went into limp mode, looked down and the temperature was way up.

Over the weekend I put in new thermostat and pump. Gave radiator and engine block a blast out with hose and no gunk or debris, water flowed clear. Checked the two radiator hoses and both had a dusting of fine white scale on the inside. Got it all back together Monday evening, went for a little drive and everything seemed fine, cabin heater worked on request. Yesterday morning it ran for first five miles or so, then got really hot then cooled back to normal. A couple of miles on it got hot again and stayed hot the rest of the way to work (16 miles total). Tried the cabin heater and got no heat. Once it was cool, checked water level and it was fine. Much the same story on the way home.

Last night disconnected top hose from radiator and kept topping up with water until it would settle no further. Ran it on the drive and it came up to normal temp and went no further. Nothing from cabin heater.

This morning on the way to work, I kept the heater on full all the way and it gave heat all the way, engine temperature stayed normal.

On the way back, kept cabin heater on full, fine for the first couple of miles and then went cold. Engine got hot. Got home radiator was cool straight after running but quickly got warm once stationary. Pressure in both hoses and both hot.

Alternator/pump drive belts are new, tension seems good and no electrical hiccups.

Have I still got an air-lock and how do I clear it? What else can I do?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I could do with taking the truck away at the weekend and it is booked in for towing the trailer for Scout camp (150 miles away) the following weekend, so I really want to get it cracked soon.

pdfisher · Jul 17, 2013

i think i have read that they do airlock badly will try and find the post

chris vince · Jul 17, 2013

There are many different types of antifreeze available these days, mixing them up can cause some types to form a gel like substance, I would get hold of a good cooling system cleaner and follow the instructions very carefully.

wozizname · Jul 17, 2013

chris vince said:
There are many different types of antifreeze available these days, mixing them up can cause some types to form a gel like substance, I would get hold of a good cooling system cleaner and follow the instructions very carefully.

:+1
This gelling Chris mentions can restrict and block the normal flow of the cooling circuit.
Flush it out following the instructions fully!
Jack the truck up at the front to get the 'head' of the radiator above the heater matrix during the process.
Once you're happy it's flushed then refill with just plain water.
Start it up, heater on full temperature, let it idle with the cap off the radiator. Top the water up if it drops but if it starts to spill out put the cap on.
Drop the truck down to ground level and top up the header tank to the correct level.
Go for a test drive to check all is ok, if it is then drain and repeat the process using the correct antifreeze solution being blue or green coloured.
Pink, red, orange or yellow or what ever other colour they're selling is a no, no!

diggerman · Jul 18, 2013

I buy antifreeze in 205 litre drums, the company I deal with can supply the same stuff in either yellow or green.
They can be mixed with no problems as they are both a good quality anti freeze made with the same active ingredients.
Where the real problems arise is when different types of COOLANT are mixed, ie C and D types etc.
Some engines must not use ordinary antifreeze and water and must only use a coolant type antifreeze - inhibitor.
One old mechanic I knew would have used a coolant in engines that would.have ran too hot on just normal antifreeze and water.
But as said clean out the system throughly and use a decent antifreeze mix.
Also it may be worth checking that the new thermostat is opening at the correct temperature , worth trying more than once.
It is possible you may have an issue with the water pump , I have seen the need to replace impellers in engines in the past.

chris vince · Jul 18, 2013

I've also seen impellors spin freely on their shafts giving the impression they are working, but when rev's rise they do not keep up, and the engine overheats.
I also use a 3% mix of wetter water, this is a product that destroys the surface tension of water making it cling to metal surfaces, it is used in dragsters (without radiators or water pumps), we used to have a Chrysler Voyager that had the rad fan on pretty constantly, as soon as the wetter water was added I never heard it run again.

diggerman · Jul 18, 2013

chris vince said:
I've also seen impellors spin freely on their shafts giving the impression they are working, but when rev's rise they do not keep up, and the engine overheats.
I also use a 3% mix of wetter water, this is a product that destroys the surface tension of water making it cling to metal surfaces, it is used in dragsters (without radiators or water pumps), we used to have a Chrysler Voyager that had the rad fan on pretty constantly, as soon as the wetter water was added I never heard it run again.

Have also seen a spinning impeller Chris.

wozizname · Jul 18, 2013

diggerman said:
chris vince said:

I've also seen impellors spin freely on their shafts giving the impression they are working, but when rev's rise they do not keep up, and the engine overheats.
I also use a 3% mix of wetter water, this is a product that destroys the surface tension of water making it cling to metal surfaces, it is used in dragsters (without radiators or water pumps), we used to have a Chrysler Voyager that had the rad fan on pretty constantly, as soon as the wetter water was added I never heard it run again.

Click to expand...

Have also seen a spinning impeller Chris.

In the OP he's fitted a new pump :wink:

Ben Trout · Jul 18, 2013

Thanks all. More options for me to try tomorrow.

Why not red antifreeze? I have refilled from drained and blasted out and that is what was recommended to me by the autofactors.

Having removed the leaky bottle of water from the passenger foot well, I still have damp carpet. I'll check the water level in the morning, but heater matrix has been put back to my 'possible' list for the moment.

diggerman · Jul 18, 2013

wozizname said:
diggerman said:

chris vince said:

I've also seen impellors spin freely on their shafts giving the impression they are working, but when rev's rise they do not keep up, and the engine overheats.
I also use a 3% mix of wetter water, this is a product that destroys the surface tension of water making it cling to metal surfaces, it is used in dragsters (without radiators or water pumps), we used to have a Chrysler Voyager that had the rad fan on pretty constantly, as soon as the wetter water was added I never heard it run again.

Click to expand...

Have also seen a spinning impeller Chris.

Click to expand...

In the OP he's fitted a new pump :wink:

yes but one forgets these things as you get older :roll:

chris vince · Jul 19, 2013

I did clock this, but not knowing the pedigree of the pump, it is still a possibility, as there are so many really cheap and nasty imported parts around these days, that being brand new is sadly no guarantee that it is working as intended let alone designed.

The fact that I turned 60 a couple of weeks ago should not be held against me!

Ben Trout · Jul 19, 2013

Flushed system with 'Wynn's radiator flush' and refilled with water. It is better but still getting hot. Pressure in all the hoses but cabin heater is still intermittent. Going to pop off heater hose and refill from there to try to eliminate air lock in that area.

Could a spinning pump impeller be this random? I imagine that they would either work or not.

chris vince · Jul 19, 2013

You always get a certain amount of 'thermal flow'.
If when the heat input exceeds what can be lost by this means naturally, and the pump is not helping overheating will occur.
This is only my thoughts, NOT gospel, don't remove the pump on my say so, I would concentrate on the heater matrix, it may have gelled/blocked during the summer when not in use, try to pressure clean it through.

Ben Trout · Jul 19, 2013

One little thought; how easy should it be to turn the viscous fan on the shaft? It will turn by hand fairly easily, but I can feel some resistance.

chris vince · Jul 19, 2013

Depends on how hot it's hub is.
When cold it should turn fairly easily, as no cooling effect is required, as it heats up, it should get stiffer as a cooling effect is needed to draw air through the rad.

wozizname · Jul 19, 2013

Ben Trout said:
Going to pop off heater hose and refill from there to try to eliminate air lock in that area.

Pop off both the matrix hoses and push some water through matrix with a hose pipe to check there's no restriction or blockage before filling it.

landmannnn · Jul 20, 2013

And don't worry about the antifreeze. Dexcool is a US product used by GM that gels when mixed with ethylene glycol, not applicable to the UK,

wozizname · Jul 20, 2013

landmannnn said:
And don't worry about the antifreeze. Dexcool is a US product used by GM that gels when mixed with ethylene glycol, not applicable to the UK,

Care to expand further as my mechanic mate in the US told me it was corroding gaskets not causing 'gelling' problems and when mixed it just reduced its inhibitor life :dunno

Ben Trout · Aug 4, 2013

Thank you all for your help thus far.

It looks like it is a head gasket issue, between exhaust and coolant. It seems I have been loosing water, but with all the messing about, it had been disguised. Have noticed the occasional puff of white smoke and have had bubbles or vapour from the radiator filler with the cap off. For future reference, the level in the header tank means sod all.

The engine is due valve clearance check and I gather that has to be done on reassembly. Is there anything else I should do while I have the top end apart?

Cooling system being difficult.

Ben Trout

pdfisher

chris vince

wozizname

diggerman

chris vince

diggerman

wozizname

Ben Trout

diggerman

chris vince

Ben Trout

chris vince

Ben Trout

chris vince

wozizname

landmannnn

wozizname

Ben Trout

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities