Blown engine advice?

Waren569 · Jan 30, 2014

Hi all,

I bought my D22 several months ago and have only just got around to working on it due to a number of other projects. Car was bought as a non-runner with suspected (expected) blown bottom end and after getting the engine out (YD25 btw) found a couple of large holes in the sump and a missing con-rod (the fabled no.3). To add to this issue, it had also clipped the block and taken out a small chunk of the sump 'face', leaving the block needing repair / replacement. I was 'lucky' enough to find a complete engine from a breakers (with decent block and sump) but having stripped that also found no.3 bearing damaged.

Question is - I have 2 x cranks but both have wear marks on the no.3 big end journal. I've read on here that grinding these cranks is an absolute no-no but I also know that induction hardening is done on the majority of OE cranks and grinding them is usually possible without issue (induction hardening usually penetrates 0.60 - 0.90 into the steel or so I am told). I have also seen that most remanufacturers grind the cranks on their motors too, so how bad a problem is it really if I took 0.25 off the big end journals and fitted ACL bearings?

I realise getting a new crank is the ideal way to go and some people have had trouble after doing it but I just don't have the funds at the moment. Anyone had good experiences grinding the cranks and how much did you go oversize?

diggerman · Jan 30, 2014

Asfaik all ground cranks will fail eventually.

Phoenix · Jan 30, 2014

Yes all grinding is a no no, also putting another YD in will give you the same problems. If your doing it yourself get the upgraded parts froom Billcar & you'll be good to go :thumbright:

Highland navara · Jan 30, 2014

You like you know what you are doing but I think that a new crank is the only way I'm afraid, time to save the pennies

as Jay says,get the uprated parts from billcar they have built up an excellent reputation on here with quality work and parts but they're not cheap but if you want the best :dunno what ever way you go dont buy the parts from nissan as they're still the cheap and nasty parts that will fail again.

Ian

Waren569 · Jan 30, 2014

Thanks for the responses, has anyone had experience with the brand new 'European' made cranks advertised on Fleebay for just over 300 quid? They are touted as 'quality' items but for that price (compared with others) I'm dubious as to their quality?

As an update on my two broken engines - both of them look like they have been rebuilt, one of them fairly recently as all of the internals were clean and gaskets/bolts look fairly new. STD shells though, so they've not lasted very long 2nd time around.

eddmurphy · Jan 30, 2014

Could you not re-use either crank? you may have already said something along those lines....

diggerman · Jan 30, 2014

Posibly rebuilt with fractured conrods? Or reused previously stretched con rod bolts.

diggerman · Jan 30, 2014

eddmurphy said:
Could you not re-use either crank? you may have already said something along those lines....

The crank would only do if it does not need ground, and then it would need x-rayed to make sure it is not cracked, to much of a risk imho better to use a quality proven new crank.

wozizname · Jan 31, 2014

Waren569 said:
Question is - I have 2 x cranks but both have wear marks on the no.3 big end journal. I've read on here that grinding these cranks is an absolute no-no but I also know that induction hardening is done on the majority of OE cranks and grinding them is usually possible without issue (induction hardening usually penetrates 0.60 - 0.90 into the steel or so I am told). I have also seen that most remanufacturers grind the cranks on their motors too, so how bad a problem is it really if I took 0.25 off the big end journals and fitted ACL bearings?

Yes agreed in normal circumstances you'd be right.............but we're talking about Nissan now and Nissan state that YD25 engine failures only account for about 3%..........so why are there so many blowing up..........I'd say it's the reverse :twisted:
Many, many owners and engine builders have followed the 'normal circumstances' route and followed the Nissan stated re-grind tolerances to discover that the crank has failed/snapped/sheared across the journal :slaphead rendering the rebuilt engine destroyed once again at much expense :evil: and that's why soooo many are lying in breakers yards :cry
Lets face it, Renaults controlling power in ownership dictated Nissan 'out sourced' on the cheap resulting poor quality machining and parts used without any quality control and the rest is as they say 'history'
They did it again with the later replacement D40 with single chain drive on the timing chains........but that's ok because once again why should they care because they'll all be out of warranty when the engines destroy themselves :really
Get a new crank, do the big end bearing/bolt mod and oil seal and drive it forever if you service it right :thumbright:

Click to expand...

Waren569 · Mar 18, 2014

"

Hi folks,

After a major mission to move out of my business premises and a few other issues I'm now ready to get back on the Navara. I could buy a new crank off Bilcar (or a good used one) but that is still out of my budget, as I can't afford £500+ for a crank and then the cost of uprated bearings, bolts and gaskets etc. Therefore, I'm looking at two options:

a) Get one of my cranks tuftrided or nitrided to STD size or first oversize.
b) Buy a new non-genuine crank @£320 off fleebay (chap in Manchester). These are claimed to be OE quality with 1 year warranty.

With both of the above options I'll use ACL bearings and ARP bolts etc. from Bilcar. If I was giving an opinion on this myself, I'd say keep saving and get genuine but the cars going to be sat in the drive for another year unless a decent OE crank comes along at good money. I just want to know if anyone has any experience of either of the above? I note that most YD25 engine remanufacturers state that they regrind the cranks if necessary and fit new oversized bearings, probably why so many are listed "recon engine fitted 10k miles ago but gone again" and if I were in this position again I'd just get a complete motor from Bilcar as it would have been cheaper in long run. Lesson learned!

Right, I'm off to ring some tuftriding experts for some advice if anyone has any recommendations I'd be grateful!

markmarc · Mar 19, 2014

Re: "

just wondered how bad it has picked up would you not get away with a polish apposed to a regrind wouls save you alot of money,just a thought
m

Waren569 said:
Hi folks,

After a major mission to move out of my business premises and a few other issues I'm now ready to get back on the Navara. I could buy a new crank off Bilcar (or a good used one) but that is still out of my budget, as I can't afford £500+ for a crank and then the cost of uprated bearings, bolts and gaskets etc. Therefore, I'm looking at two options:

a) Get one of my cranks tuftrided or nitrided to STD size or first oversize.
b) Buy a new non-genuine crank @£320 off fleebay (chap in Manchester). These are claimed to be OE quality with 1 year warranty.

With both of the above options I'll use ACL bearings and ARP bolts etc. from Bilcar. If I was giving an opinion on this myself, I'd say keep saving and get genuine but the cars going to be sat in the drive for another year unless a decent OE crank comes along at good money. I just want to know if anyone has any experience of either of the above? I note that most YD25 engine remanufacturers state that they regrind the cranks if necessary and fit new oversized bearings, probably why so many are listed "recon engine fitted 10k miles ago but gone again" and if I were in this position again I'd just get a complete motor from Bilcar as it would have been cheaper in long run. Lesson learned!

Right, I'm off to ring some tuftriding experts for some advice if anyone has any recommendations I'd be grateful!

Waren569 · Mar 25, 2014

I think the better of the 2 cranks is a couple of thou smaller on one of the big end journals, the other crank has a heavy gouge but I could take them to my local engineering company and get some advice. I'll do a online search for the std crank tolerances as there doesn't seem to be anything on here.

Thanks for advice, would rather stick with std crank rather than going for something aftermarket i.e. at least one is a known quantity unless someone can tell me otherwise.

diggerman · Mar 26, 2014

Waren569 said:
I think the better of the 2 cranks is a couple of thou smaller on one of the big end journals, the other crank has a heavy gouge but I could take them to my local engineering company and get some advice. I'll do a online search for the std crank tolerances as there doesn't seem to be anything on here.

Thanks for advice, would rather stick with std crank rather than going for something aftermarket i.e. at least one is a known quantity unless someone can tell me otherwise.

If the aftermarket crank came from a reputable supplier and they had sold loads with no comeback, I,d fit one before I'd use a reground crank as they are pretty nearly guaranteed to fail.

chris vince · Mar 26, 2014

The one thing you need to be VERY wary of, is big end bearing clearances that are nearing the upper limits.
Not only are the original shells, con rod bolts and sump to oil pump seal badly designed and specified, but the con rods themselves have a built in weakness also, THANK you again Nissan!
There is an oil-way drilling on the neck of the upper part of the con rods, that has a tendency to be the starting point of disasterous cracking leading to complete engine failure, usually throwing the rod through the block.
Obviously this does not occur on engines with close end bearing clearances, and usually shows up once the big end cancer has been discovered, sometimes the conrod is still in place BUT with a cracked neck!
I can only presume that the start of this cracking is due to micro vibrations and hammering caused by the end shells having been worn allowing too much movement causing metal fatigue leading to failure.
So my humble advice to you is, if there is ANY wear evident on the used crankshaft pins I would NOT be using it, spend a little extra for a new one of good manufacture, at all costs you need to save the block.

diggerman · Mar 26, 2014

chris vince said:
The one thing you need to be VERY wary of, is big end bearing clearances that are nearing the upper limits.
Not only are the original shells, con rod bolts and sump to oil pump seal badly designed and specified, but the con rods themselves have a built in weakness also, THANK you again Nissan!
There is an oil-way drilling on the neck of the upper part of the con rods, that has a tendency to be the starting point of disasterous cracking leading to complete engine failure, usually throwing the rod through the block.
Obviously this does not occur on engines with close end bearing clearances, and usually shows up once the big end cancer has been discovered, sometimes the conrod is still in place BUT with a cracked neck!
I can only presume that the start of this cracking is due to micro vibrations and hammering caused by the end shells having been worn allowing too much movement causing metal fatigue leading to failure.
So my humble advice to you is, if there is ANY wear evident on the used crankshaft pins I would NOT be using it, spend a little extra for a new one of good manufacture, at all costs you need to save the block.

A set of new conrods would make sense too then, not much point putting back parts that already started to fail.

Blown engine advice?

Waren569

diggerman

Phoenix

Highland navara

Waren569

eddmurphy

diggerman

diggerman

wozizname

Waren569

markmarc

Waren569

diggerman

chris vince

diggerman

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