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NISSANDY

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi,

I have a Pathfinder R51 2.5 diesel. It started showing starting problems i.e. when cold (overnight) would start and then stall after about 30 seconds and would then start again but only with a struggle thereafter it would start fine for the rest of the day. After a service it struggled to start at all and produced heavy white smoke when it eventually did start. Thereafter it would be fine all day. It was suggested that I get the injectors tested. Injectors 1,2 and 3 came out fine and were tested to be OK. 4 would not come out but was assumed to be at fault. Eventually four was removed. It was a struggle as the injector below the head had swollen and then the copper washer had fused so would not come out easily. Eventually all was removed and a new injector installed. I picked it up yesterday and it started fine (it was warm) and ran very smoothly and much more quietly. A happy bunny...until this cold and frosty morning....starting was more difficult than ever, white smoke etc. Fuel filter has been replaced & glow plugs were replaced at service 5 weeks ago as was the airfilter. Good quality Shell diesel is in the tank. Engine turned over fine but would not catch eventually chugging into a very reluctant life and very "clanky" for first few moments, would not rev, stalled then re started it then smooth, quiet and pulling like a train. There is no sound of pressure leak so assuming that the new injector is sealed in correctly.

Any ideas?

Cheers

Andy
 
This can never be a definitive diagnosis, as this would be impossible over the net, but.
This fault does seem like an air in the fuel problem to me.
Does your vehicle have the button type pump on the filter housing?
If so these are well known to fail and let air into the fuel.
First morning starting and stalling problems could be indicative of air getting in overnight as the fuel returns to the tank by gravity, the engine running only on the fuel in the pipes until the slug of air gets to the injector pump, the engine then stalls.
As you said the filter was replaced at the service, disturbance of an already defective filter/pump housing may well have aggravated the air leak.
When the button is pumped it should go hard after about 4-5 pumps (give or take a few).
Try having someone constantly pump the button while you start it.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Thanks Chris. I will look at that. I seem to remember that it does have a button on the pump or I may be confusing that with my old TD5 Discovery. To the Haines manual and beyond!
 
There's a bulb below the fuel filter. The bulbs have been known to split or even the hoses.

The best diagnosis is to pump the bulb before starting until it becomes hard, then if it starts and runs fine you have an air leak.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
There's a bulb below the fuel filter. The bulbs have been known to split or even the hoses.

The best diagnosis is to pump the bulb before starting until it becomes hard, then if it starts and runs fine you have an air leak.
It does have a bulb underneath. It has just been sitting for about 30 mins and when I pimped it it became hard (ooh errrr) It was quite soft. If I pump it and then start it in the morning will it have the same effect as someone else pumping whilst it starts? NO signs of any Diesel leakage anywhere.
 
It does have a bulb underneath. It has just been sitting for about 30 mins and when I pimped it it became hard (ooh errrr) It was quite soft. If I pump it and then start it in the morning will it have the same effect as someone else pumping whilst it starts? NO signs of any Diesel leakage anywhere.
Certainly when i had an airleak caused by a low quality filter, pumping it to hard beforehand stopped the spluttering and stalling when it was started.

The problem is more of air leaking in than diesel leaking out, not totally sure why though.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Certainly when i had an airleak caused by a low quality filter, pumping it to hard beforehand stopped the spluttering and stalling when it was started.

The problem is more of air leaking in than diesel leaking out, not totally sure why though.
I shall go to bed tonight dreaming that all will be well with a quick bladder pump when I wake up in the morning. Fingers crossed.
 
I once had a problem with a brand new filter that had been spun so thin, it was actually porous, it used to let air in overnight, another new one sorted it.
But, you were having problems before the service was completed.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
The dream did not come true!

Friend pumped the fuel pump bladder till firm and continued to pump as I started the car. Still struggled to start in the same way with huge amount of white smoke. He thought it was more the smell of oil than un-burned diesel. I am now wondering if the turbo is on it's way out. If the seal is starting to go in the turbo, oil will be pooling in the turbo then being pushed into the cylinder to burn with the fuel on initial startup. Smokes for a few secs once started then runs clear. However seems to knock quite badly for a few secs also. Exhaust has quite an acrid smell once running OK which I am wonderingif it is the small amount of oil from turbo but not enough to cause smoke on normal running.

Any further thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Andy.
 
Just re-read your opening post.
How many miles has the engine covered?
Have you had the lower timing chain replaced/upgraded? I ask this because you describe a 'clanky' noise when it eventually starts.
Are you aware of the timing chain issue with these engines? Commonly they stretch, and can snap or jump sprocket teeth.
If you do have this generic inbuilt fault (thank you Nissan!), a stretched chain could well be throwing the injector timing phasing out, causing bad starting particularly when cold.
Unburnt, excess diesel in the cylinders and system would cause white smoke when it eventually starts.
I would not be looking at a turbo problem, because the exhaust would be blue smoke if it was burning engine oil.
Lastly has it been using coolant water? A defective head gasket would also give bad starting and white smoke (steam), but you would not be getting extraneous engine noises.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Just re-read your opening post.
How many miles has the engine covered?
Have you had the lower timing chain replaced/upgraded? I ask this because you describe a 'clanky' noise when it eventually starts.
Are you aware of the timing chain issue with these engines? Commonly they stretch, and can snap or jump sprocket teeth.
If you do have this generic inbuilt fault (thank you Nissan!), a stretched chain could well be throwing the injector timing phasing out, causing bad starting particularly when cold.
Unburnt, excess diesel in the cylinders and system would cause white smoke when it eventually starts.
I would not be looking at a turbo problem, because the exhaust would be blue smoke if it was burning engine oil.
Lastly has it been using coolant water? A defective head gasket would also give bad starting and white smoke (steam), but you would not be getting extraneous engine noises.
Wonderful detail Chris. Thank you.
72K miles on a 10 plate.
Yes it is a clanky / knocking noise on startup that goes.
Would out of phase injection have an impact on general running? It is running incredibly well once warm. Pulls like a train.
It's not steam as far as I can see as I think it is too thick and drifts a long way.
Timing chain is not an insignificant job if I remember correctly. Is it diagnosable?
Thanks again.
Andy
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
I know you said it was recently serviced but you have not mentioned if the fuel filter was changed. It will be well worth you fitting a new genuine one as some aftermarket ones can cause problems.

It will be well worth measuring the timing chain as per Landmannnn's recommendation.

Good luck
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
I know you said it was recently serviced but you have not mentioned if the fuel filter was changed. It will be well worth you fitting a new genuine one as some aftermarket ones can cause problems.

It will be well worth measuring the timing chain as per Landmannnn's recommendation.

Good luck
Thanks Looks..Fuel filter was changed using a Nissan one I believe, but will double check. Thanks.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
I wish I could edit my original post. Another thing has come to mind. From time to time, quite rarely (months apart) it will go into limp mode, quite randomly. I stop, turn off the engine, restart and all is fine for days, weeks even months then it will do it again. Any speed from urban to motorway.
 
I wish I could edit my original post. Another thing has come to mind. From time to time, quite rarely (months apart) it will go into limp mode, quite randomly. I stop, turn off the engine, restart and all is fine for days, weeks even months then it will do it again. Any speed from urban to motorway.
I've not been on for a while since my Navara **** it's timing chain.
But, take a look at this, it may help you
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
I've not been on for a while since my Navara **** it's timing chain.
But, take a look at this, it may help you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7KPi_weXyM
Blimey, yet another spin on the potential route cause of my woes. Thanks for this.
It is booked in at an engine specialist in Stockport on Monday who seems to know his stuff. Fingers crossed.
Thanks for the post. I may go and reset my fuel pump just for the hell of it now!
Andy
 
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