[DeviousNavara]

AdBlu does reduce NOx emissions, and many Euro 6 diesels won't reach that standard without it.... What exactly is "being spit out more" ? Just curious as to the science....

I'm no engineer so I can't guarantee the facts, but from my research as to how AdBlue works (as a lorry driver, I was curious), it seems that it traps the harmful particles that build up while driving around the towns and then when the engine is hot and you're running down the motorway, it runs a little harder and hotter and cleans the particles out.

So as far as I can tell, it's just moving said particles from one area to another - obviously it's better for the particles to not be in towns but it's not exactly helping the environment. As for cleaning the filters, if it's having to run the engine harder when on the motorway, how's that going to help? Surely that's going to cause more emissions overall?

 

[Marco64]

I think this youtube fragment explains somewhat what AdBlue is used for:

 

[freemansteve]

I'm no engineer so I can't guarantee the facts, but from my research as to how AdBlue works (as a lorry driver, I was curious), it seems that it traps the harmful particles that build up while driving around the towns and then when the engine is hot and you're running down the motorway, it runs a little harder and hotter and cleans the particles out.

So as far as I can tell, it's just moving said particles from one area to another - obviously it's better for the particles to not be in towns but it's not exactly helping the environment. As for cleaning the filters, if it's having to run the engine harder when on the motorway, how's that going to help? Surely that's going to cause more emissions overall?

No there are fewer emissions of toxins.....

I think that your idea idea refers to a DPF (diesel particulate filter). This traps sooty particles of unburned fuel, which are some of the most carcinogenic substances you can commonly find. They enter the body and cause (apart from cancers), heart disease and brain damage like dementia. To help fight this, with a DPF, every so often, extra fuel is injected into the DPF which heats the particulates up in the trap to turn them into CO2, and basically a less harmful kind of soot.

AdBlue is injected to hot exhaust gas and there is a catalysed chemical reaction that turns toxic nitrogen oxides into nitrogen and water. A different toxin to particulates.

All of the above helps reduce the 40,000-odd people in the UK who die from air-borne toxins, of which, diesel engines have been and still are a very significant part.

This is why diesels are being banned from some towns. Soon there will also be legislation to ban things like DPF removal and EGR valve blanking - which in the US has been a federal crime for a while - it is being discussed in the UK parliament as something we will have here, irrespective of the EU. But obviously not before Mrs May gets her landslide victory, as she can't introduce anything unpopular between now and June!

 

[DeviousNavara]

I think this youtube fragment explains somewhat what AdBlue is used for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2mD-yYgiJs

Ah, I think that explains it better. So it's not a waste of time, but it does mean that we spend more money on running our cars than we would have, along with a smaller fuel tank and thus shorter range.

No there are fewer emissions of toxins.....

I think that your idea idea refers to a DPF (diesel particulate filter). This traps sooty particles of unburned fuel, which are some of the most carcinogenic substances you can commonly find. They enter the body and cause (apart from cancers), heart disease and brain damage like dementia. To help fight this, with a DPF, every so often, extra fuel is injected into the DPF which heats the particulates up in the trap to turn them into CO2, and basically a less harmful kind of soot.

AdBlue is injected to hot exhaust gas and there is a catalysed chemical reaction that turns toxic nitrogen oxides into nitrogen and water. A different toxin to particulates.

All of the above helps reduce the 40,000-odd people in the UK who die from air-borne toxins, of which, diesel engines have been and still are a very significant part.

This is why diesels are being banned from some towns. Soon there will also be legislation to ban things like DPF removal and EGR valve blanking - which in the US has been a federal crime for a while - it is being discussed in the UK parliament as something we will have here, irrespective of the EU. But obviously not before Mrs May gets her landslide victory, as she can't introduce anything unpopular between now and June!

That would sound likely. But is that not what any vehicle that uses AdBlue does? Are there different implementations?

Either way, can anyone explain why it costs so much? I mean... It's 32.5% pig **** and 67.5% water. There is no excuse for it costing almost as much per litre as diesel! It's extortion!

In fact, why can't I just buy 100% urea and put in some tap water? That'd be cheaper.

 

[Brom66]

Below 35p per liter if you know where to look

 

[Brom66]

My Tekna Auto is telling me to fill up the Adblue after just 1350 miles.

I've driven it pretty hard during that time, towing mainly and getting around 20-24mpg.

Should I get onto the dealer about it or do I just need to accept it uses shed loads more than it should (just like it's fuel consumption! :frown2 and top it up??

That was pretty much so ours, dealer probably didn't fill tank up before delivery.

Although there was a ad-blu leak found. Which took 3 months to rectify due to back order of part. 7000-ish miles were done before warranty work was done and 3+tankfuls.

Will post mileage when ad blu warning comes on again.

 

[freemansteve]

Ah, I think that explains it better. So it's not a waste of time, but it does mean that we spend more money on running our cars than we would have, along with a smaller fuel tank and thus shorter range.
That would sound likely. But is that not what any vehicle that uses AdBlue does? Are there different implementations?
Either way, can anyone explain why it costs so much? I mean... It's 32.5% pig **** and 67.5% water. There is no excuse for it costing almost as much per litre as diesel! It's extortion!

In fact, why can't I just buy 100% urea and put in some tap water? That'd be cheaper.

The fuel tanks are the same size as they ever were. The AdBlue is in an additional, much smaller tank. Yes it is a slight extra cost, but nicer than poisoning yourself and others! AdBlue production has nothing to do with pigs or similar - the active ingredient is industrially produced urea, which also happens to be in all mammalian urine. Not all diesels that are Euro6 use AdBlue - it is one strategy to reduce nitrous oxides in the exhaust, but it is reasonably efficient. In the combustion process, anything that lowers the burn temperature will inherently reduce nitrogen oxides being produced - some diesels rely on this instead.
You cannot use tap water - it will damage the catalyst. You have to use de-ionized water. In theory you could make your own if you knew that your urea source (which is used as a fertilizer) was pure and you knew how to mix it in the right proportions.

Some info here:
https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/reports/aqeg/nd-summary.pdf
and here
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35629034

 

[Marco64]

The fuel tanks are the same size as they ever were.

No, the fuel tank is now reduced to 72 liters i.s.o. 80 liters because the AdBlue tank is mounted next to it.

 

[andrew]

Has anyone researched diesel pollution and its effects on humans. With the 'clever' use of statistics it is calculated that the average person loses between 2 & 21 days of their life due to diesel cars.

The American government experimented on very young & v.old by putting them in gas chambers & running hoses from Diesel engines into the chamber. Which was technically illiegal.

 

[Lambo]

My Tekna Auto is telling me to fill up the Adblue after just 1350 miles.

I've driven it pretty hard during that time, towing mainly and getting around 20-24mpg.

Should I get onto the dealer about it or do I just need to accept it uses shed loads more than it should (just like it's fuel consumption! :frown2 and top it up??

I've filled up the Adblue and it took about 9 litres which seems to be the level people say the warning pops up on the dash. I suspect the supplying dealer didn't fill it up. I was told it wasn't a PDI requirement to do that and is down to the dealer. Mine came from Worcester.

So I'll monitor to see how it goes.

 

[freemansteve]

Has anyone researched diesel pollution and its effects on humans. With the 'clever' use of statistics it is calculated that the average person loses between 2 & 21 days of their life due to diesel cars.

The American government experimented on very young & v.old by putting them in gas chambers & running hoses from Diesel engines into the chamber. Which was technically illiegal.

The effects of diesel exhaust and other airborne pollutants has been very researched for decades by proper academics, and big bodies like the WHO; it is not simply making up statistics. What is interesting is that it is so well known despite the vested interests of big money (oil and vehicle industry) who wish it wasn't true. Having denied that lead in petrol was harmless decades ago, they have learned their lessons, and today don't pretend diesel is harmless. Even diesel fuel itself is a known carcinogen - the reason they have plastic gloves at fuel stations isn't just because diesel is sticky and messy, it's because oil industry lawyers can avoid their companies being sued, should someone blame their illnesses on contact with the fuel. They can rightly argue that they gave you the choice to use the gloves...

And have you a source about the American government doing what you state, or is it just your own theory?

 

[andrew]

On the EPA chambers: https://epahumantesting.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/epa-oig-final-051412-optimized.pdf

Review of one of the high impact studies: http://junkscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1559325817693345.pdf

Other interesting reading on diesel car pollution studies: http://euanmearns.com/mortality-from-diesel-car-pollution-in-the-uk/

There is little doubt that air pollution is an irritant, however the death statistics (UK 20-30,000/yr) quoted by politicians are questionable.

Biodiesel fumes are also thought a carcinogen, as Is the exhaust from biomass powerstations.

It's always good to review progress made on atmospheric pollution: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/579200/Emissions_airpollutants_statisticalrelease_2016_final.pdf

In the medium term measures to improve urban pollution could be.
1. move buses to CNG, considering the fracking future & inbuilt gas network, makes sense. US is leading the way on this tech. Followed obviously by lorries. This Also cuts CO2 considerably.
2. Old gas boilers are a big supplier of NOx, a scrappage scheme for boilers would make more sense.

 

[42618]

My Navara has been into the garage for diagnostic testing. Apparently the AdBlue system used in the vehicle is made by Bosch, so the data has been passed onto them to check. Also in the garage was a taxi which also had excessive AdBlue usage, it was a Renault but had the same Bosch system fitted. The tank level is done by some sort of sonar system rather than a float switch. So far my Nissan has used 40 litres of AdBlue over 7500 miles.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

 

[Uselescrapytwit]

The adblue systems in all cars are known to be troublesome with regard to quantities and usage. May be it's because many companies use the same system or because it's all pissing in the wind. So to speak. Pig **** into the hot exhaust to clean it through chemical reaction.

You need to remember the government did a knee jerk reaction to get us all into diesel cars because the green tree huggers said it was better.( more miles to the gallon and safer and better for environment and health. Now the same piggin party saying we are all going to die from it.

Hay government why don't you do another knee jerk reaction to this try electric.... oh sorry that has environmental and health implications as well coal power stations , nuclear, and gas ... for Christ sake government get real and work towards a sensible solution and education. We all want the power, motive ability and luxury that we have got used to. It's not a right it's got a cost. Like electricity isn't a right it's a luxuary if we were meant to have electric we would rub our legs together and get power or have wheels so we could drive around.


Another rant from me laugh out loud on a roll




Our wants have a cost and always will.

 

[landmannnn]

It's a bit early to be on the cider, but a good rant.

 

[SteveMLewis]

Well promised I would feed back. 369 miles on the clock and the warning light has come on telling me to Refill. I was assured the tank was full on delivery but I have no proof. Will fill it up at my local pump today and see how much goes in and how long it will last. :frown2:

13202 miles on the clock and the warning light has come on for the fourth time in that mileage. Something tells me not all is right :frown2:

 

[Gcurth]

I am on 7k mileage now and have had to top up the adblue 3 times. the last time i only did 1000 miles between fill ups and it used 6 litres of adblue! i have recently done a lot of short journeys though so i wonder if this has an effect on it. it would be nice to have a proper gauge rather than just a message so you can see how much it uses! As you get the message up and i refill it as we have bulk tanks at work, so i've not run it down lower yet to see any other messages reference refilling as last thing i would want is it going in to limp mode on me!

 

[SteveMLewis]

I am on 7k mileage now and have had to top up the adblue 3 times. the last time i only did 1000 miles between fill ups and it used 6 litres of adblue! i have recently done a lot of short journeys though so i wonder if this has an effect on it. it would be nice to have a proper gauge rather than just a message so you can see how much it uses! As you get the message up and i refill it as we have bulk tanks at work, so i've not run it down lower yet to see any other messages reference refilling as last thing i would want is it going in to limp mode on me!

I have just topped up and just got 10 litres in and I mean just. That tells me there is still well over 7 litres in the tank when the warning light comes on. Still doesn't equate to 7000 miles per full tank though. :serious:

 

[Marco64]

I just got the adBlue warning this week after 5500km (+/-3440 miles)
I filled it up and was able to add 8.2 liters of the stuff.
So I guess a full tank will allow me to go > 10.000 km .
I just wonder why the warning message comes on when there is still half a tank left ?

 

[RandomKamikaze]

I just got the adBlue warning this week after 5500km (+/-3440 miles)
I filled it up and was able to add 8.2 liters of the stuff.
So I guess a full tank will allow me to go > 10.000 km .
I just wonder why the warning message comes on when there is still half a tank left ?

To give you plenty of time to refill.

Once it runs out you won't be going anywhere